Tuesday, 14 August 2007

Local Conservatives say: Ban Hizb ut-Tahrir

Congratulations are due to blogmate Justin Hinchcliffe of Tottenham Conservatives and “Hunter and Shooter” fame, following a bizarre decision by bosses at Haringey's Alexandra Palace to loan the venue for a conference held by Islamic extremist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Commenting in the Haringey Independent, Justin said: "Hizb ut-Tahrir is a fascist-Islamic organisation – jihad (holy war), anti-Semitism, homophobia and misogyny are what it stands for. We don't want these hate-mongers in Haringey."

Having originally considered banning the terrorist sympathiser group two years ago (in line with most other EU countries), Tony Blair decided against the ban after being briefed by police officials that this would merely drive the group underground.

However, such toleration appears to have simply emboldened Hizb ut-Tahrir into making further attacks on women, gays and Jewish people. As Conservative Leader David Cameron argued at Prime Ministers Questions last month: "People simply won't understand why an organisation urging people to kill all Jews hasn't been banned."

And so say all of us.

Hats off to Hunter for voicing the concerns of the majority of Haringey residents - the sherberts are definitely on me next time we're out.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

So now you support banning non-violent groups based merely on sympathising with terrorists or their goals. OK maybe you should take your extremist ideas and implement it in a dictatorship somewhere, but please not in the UK.

Patriccus said...

Anonymous,

Leaving aside your petulant and unsubstantiated accusation, clarification appears necessary for the benefit of the hard of reading.

I am not calling for the banning of any group “merely” for sympathising with terrorists. However, I do support the banning of Hizb ut-Tahrir on the grounds of its repeated incitement of widespread murder of gays and Jewish people.

Let me take a different approach to yours and offer some evidence - an extract from a 1999 HuT leaflet stated that:

“Know that the Jews and their usurping state in Palestine will, by the Help and Mercy of Allah (swt), be destroyed '..until the stones and trees will say: O Muslim, O Slave of Allah. Here is a Jew behind me so come and kill him'.”

and:

“Kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out”.

If you feel that censure of groups such as HuT for expressing such sentiments is somehow extremist, I would suggest you acquaint yourself with the law of incitement to violence.

Patriccus

Anonymous said...

It is absolutely clear from the quotes above that they are in the context of warfare in Palestine.

It's a bit like an Englishman saying "kill the Hun" during WWII - so what?

As for HT being homophobic you haven't brought any evidence - that's because there isn't any.

Anonymous said...

"However, such toleration appears to have simply emboldened Hizb ut-Tahrir into making further attacks on women, gays and Jewish people...."

Since when have HuT attacked women? Never heard that one before. Can you let us know where you got that from please?

Anonymous said...

HuT probably have more support in Haringey than the Conservative party.

Justin Hinchcliffe said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Patriccus said...

Dear anonymous,

Thank you for your various posts, which I read with some interest. Though I find your arguments spurious to say the least, I’ll go with this in order to address your points.

You firstly claim that the views expressed in the HuT leaflet "And kill them wherever you find them" are made in the context of “warfare” in the Middle East, and comparable to (again, unsubstantiated) sentiments expressed towards the Nazis during WW2. If you were familiar with the law regarding assault, incitement and threatening behaviour, you would be aware that the legal interpretation of such sentiments is made from the viewpoint of the victim, not the abuser. As such, your feelings concerning these and similar expressions made in the leaflet were not shared by the Union of Jewish Students who did indeed make a formal complaint to the police, and the leaflet was grudgingly withdrawn following the threat of legal action – action, which in my opinion, should have been taken in any case.

Incidentally, you may also be aware that the same leaflet was hosted on HuT's London-based website until their organiser in Denmark was convicted and imprisoned for the race hate crime of distributing this text, and HuT was again forced to take it down – I suspect this and other such tactical withdrawals of extremist literature may be the root of your mistaken assumption that no evidence exists to demonstrate the group’s tendencies towards anti-Semitism, homophobia and suppression of women. Specifically, the text included the following incitement for would-be supporters not to restrict murderous activities towards Jewish people, but British and Americans also:

"O Muslims! Hizb ut-Tahrir calls upon you to mobilise your forces to help and support it in its work to establish the [caliphate] state by which you will restore your glory and destroy your enemy, the enemies of Allah and His Messenger, namely America, Britain, the Jews and their allies."

In other words, under English (and I suspect the vast majority of other Western states) law, HuT’s leaflet is criminal not only on the grounds of provoking racial and religious hate crimes, but for incitement to terrorist acts also – a long way from “merely” sympathising with terrorists, as your first post suggests. If you find this law somehow offensive, then I suggest you follow your own advice made in your initial post.

In relation to my contention that Hizb ut-Tahrir are both homophobic and anti-women, it is a fact that HuT still endorses Sharia law, which stipulates the death penalty for gay and lesbian Muslims, “unchaste” women (though not “unchaste” men) and those who convert from Islam. The latter is mentioned specifically in their constitution:

“Those who are guilty of apostasy (murtadd) from Islam are to be executed according to the rule of apostasy, provided they have by themselves renounced Islam”.

Furthermore, campaigners such as Peter Tatchell have repeatedly faced death threats after speaking up for westernised Muslims being abused by members of Hizb ut-Tahrir. Such threats were also the basis upon which the National Union of Students – hardly the most Islamophobic of institutions – banned HuT on university premises back in 2005.

It is for these reasons that I will continue to describe Hizb ut-Tahrir as anti-Semitic, homophobic, and suppressive of women, though I look forward to your response.

Best regards,

Patriccus

Justin Hinchcliffe said...

At a student meeting in Manchester two years ago, speakers from Hizb ut-Tahrir denounced the gay community, stating:

"Twenty years ago if you were queer ... you weren't allowed anywhere. They'd kick your door down ... Now they adopt kids, they can have a family. This is moral decline".